Forum:2011-08-26 (Friday)
Discussion for comic for . ---- ...and he turns out not to be her king/her king's successor.^^ Finn MacCool 10:01, August 26, 2011 (UTC) He is in line for the throne , three of the familys support his claim, but there is possibly someone higher on the pecking list. Agathahetrodyne 17:13, August 26, 2011 (UTC) In that case, why did Tinka and Moxana respond to him? AndyAB99 18:23, August 26, 2011 (UTC) Category:Page-by-Page Well, he did DIE, and it's already been stated that this is one major disqualifier; thus, agathahetrodyne, he's technically not even ON the pecking list anymore. As for Tinka and Moxana.. well.. Miss Heterodyne's had quite a bit of trouble from clanks and others in getting them to obey her. This shows that clanks and other Sparky creations aren't necessarily spot on when it comes to proper owner recognition. So, the muses' response to Tarvek is very possibly some kind of error (being of course just one explanation). 21:30, August 26, 2011 (UTC) If their is any problem whit Tarveks place in the Storm kings line of succession I think that we won’t see that before Christmas maybe wee will see some more of Highs or something outside the castle it have been a long time since that. Agge.se 21:31, August 26, 2011 (UTC) Yes, he did "die" and so did Agatha and Gil, thereby totally disqualifying all three of them from ruling anything. IF they were being scrupulously honest, which all other nobles, even Klaus, isn't. By this measure, the Empire is up for grabs, if Klaus is dead and the Heterodynes are no more. Mechanicsburgh is lost. It hinges on who KNOWS they "died". And who in this group is going to tell anyone? But I really don't see Otilia refusing Tarvek at this point. The story line has gotten messy enough. Any more complications and we'll never hear the Doom Bell. The authors have to cut to the chase at some point and install Agatha as the Heterodyne. As they plan this to be a finite story line, this repair can't be dragged out ad infinitum. Oh, Agatha's dingbots were built by her, but were they build expressly to serve her? AndyAB99 23:58, August 26, 2011 (UTC) : The no inheriting for revived individuals rule is a Fifty Families rule, and we have no reason to believe that the Storm King line, the Wulfenbach line, or the Heterodyne line are subject to this rule. Argadi 01:07, August 27, 2011 (UTC) : : Why would they be separate? This discussion began with the speculation that Otilia would, somehow, sense that Tarvek had died and been revived and was therefore NOT the Storm King and she wouldn't obey him. The next comment refers to some of the families recognizing Tarvek. Otilia, obviously, will not simply accept Tarvek as the Storm King without some prooof (blood, perhaps?). It may take two to three pages to settle the matter, so expect some delays. But she will recognize him and obey him eventually. That being said, from these discussions, it appears that succession is not some maigic aura or psychic vibe that can be detected. If it could, the whole matter of succession rules would not be a big issue. Revived individuals could be identified by some test or another. Otilia, in the form of von Pinn, did not notice anything special about Tarvek Sturmvoraus. No "magic aura". No "psychic vibe". No "smell or voice". Tarvek, himself, pointed out that this lineage was not know beyond Castle Sturmhalten. He reveals it to Agatha because of the presence of Tinka and Moxana plus the fact that she is the "Heterodyne Princess" fortold in legend; the prophecied bride of the Storm King who results in his reigning over a Europe at peace again. Creators ordering their creations which then refuse to obey is a running gag in this story ("That never works!") . Except that Tarvek clearly believes the Muses will obey him, that they're supposed to. They were built specifically for the Storm King by van Rijn. They are not creations of the Storm King, like Agatha's dingbots are her creations. AndyAB99 02:13, August 27, 2011 (UTC) Andy, I admire your will to support your thoughts via comic, which surpasses my patchy efforts absolutely. Relying pretty much entirely on memory, however, (I did try but I can't spare the time to search for long) my confidence *in* that memory is strong enough *to* object. I seem to recall, however flimsy human memory may be, not only Gil and Tarvek agreeing to keep Tarvek's death/revival hush hush, but some implication somewhere that Gil himself was the only one to not complete the "Valis Valeo whathaveyou" in that he never was certifiably dead, like Aggy and Tar. That, and I seem to remember specifically discussing on this wiki the fact that, now that Tarvek *had* died and Gil had *not*, whether that meant Gil's claim to the throne was suddenly more valid. Someone please validate or invalidate this. I haven't been present for a while. Madame Six Shooter 02:54, August 27, 2011 (UTC) ::Gilgamesh was the only one of the three in the Si Vales Valeo loop who did not die. He did come very close, but he did not die. -- Billy Catringer 05:52, August 27, 2011 (UTC)Correct -- Gil only came close to dying - but Agatha shouted/commanded him back (an amusing use of her command voice). --Zerogee 21:14, August 27, 2011 (UTC) I did get a bit worked up and forgot to clearly state my main point. How would Otilia know Tarvek had died and been revived? Von Pinn was not present during the Si Vales Valeo and the process was not discussed in her presence. (Plus, we are getting near the end of Volume11. The Foglios wouldn't be drawing this plot point out much further.) Actually, when I thought about it, neither Agatha nor Gil would have any concern about ''Rules of Succession. ''The Rules exist so that those further down the line have a chance at inheriting. Agatha is THE ONLY HETERODYNE. There is no one to question her right of inheritance. Zola and DuMedd, her only known living relatives, are cousins by marriage, not blood. In Gil's case, I doubt Zeetha wants to rule Europa. Klaus is a construct of the three Wulfenbach bothers so they are no cousins to challenge Gil. Which brings up an interesting point - Klaus (the head) might just be Gils Uncle, DNA wise. And, yes, he did not die. And, as we all know, very probably, neither did Klaus. AndyAB99 14:35, August 28, 2011 (UTC) ::: ::: ::: ::: :::